Bobdevo. If you are in need of some protection or assistance from someone who is attacking you, I suggest the following:
1. Call a lumberjack or fisherman if attacked by trees or fish.
2. Handle the situation yourself and don’t call the police.
The police officers are as human as the rest, but they are called to address issues and threats millions of time as day without the need to use deadly force, and when they do, the decisions are usually very accurate and justified. Some may make a “lawful, but awful” decision that does not rest well in the public view, but is legal. A couple are unlawful and needs appropriate legal action. Officers have a split-second to make a lifetime decision.
I will allow your comments to fall within the split-second decision about the police to be placed in the category of “needs more information” before you write an opinion that is baseless.
Unless Illinois law is an exception, the difference between first and second degree murder is premeditation. I don’t believe that Van Dyke arrived at the scene planning to kill McDonald. That makes second degree murder the appropriate verdict.
Police officers are supposed to be trained to handle more stress than naive private citizen. They are taught approved responses to threatening situations and are exposed to stress in training exercises. It is reasonable to expect Van Dyke to have remained calm and evaluated McDonald’s behavior rationally rather than freak out as the defense claims.
BobDevo, Can you point to the studies showing police have killed more people that ISIS, Taliban, and Al Qaeda? I am interested in the science with shoot/don’t shoot situations. I do not believe people are targeted because they are some how disadvantaged. The simple fact is the police do not typically deal with the full spectrum of any community. If you look at people committing crimes and stratify that, you will be more likely to determine if race is playing a role in shootings. We need more science in the areas of use of deadly force. Unfortunately, officers are being tried in the press. The best training in the world can’t stop shootings. Society must change for shootings to stop. Many of the police shootings would have been prevented if the person was cooperating with the police or not committing a crime. I hope you noticed the word “Many” so please don’t respond with the one case you feel the person was cooperating or not committing a crime. A single case does not make science.
I question this because police who murder on the job almost exclusively kill persons in disadvantaged classes of person: to wit, Black men in the USA. If police really were under some kind of biological stress, they would kill the same ratio of persons in every class of person, but they don’t.
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While Dr. Miller did earn a PhD in Clinical Psychology I have no idea what specializing in “neurocognition” means, and I do not believe that there has ever been a program with this name at CUNY. It is not clear to me that he is actually qualified to call himself a Neuropsychologist: according to APA guidelines one must complete a 2 year post-doctoral fellowship under the tutelage of PhDs (psychologists) & MDs (psychiatrists & neurologists). In Dr.Miller’s case almost all of his so-called neuropsychological training occurred prior to his PhD, and he did not undergo 2 yrs of requisite training afterward. There is, as far as I am aware, no “settled science” on the degree of cognitive distortion normal ppl experience under stress, and training (as for soldiers) is designed to inculcate appropriate procedures to mitigate the effects of stress on performance.
The same university that the police psychologist graduated from discounts using science in this field. I think science is crucial but this officer seemed to exhibit cognitive bias toward shooting the alleged suspect. “Why don’t they just shoot…”. A person fleeing from officer that shot him 16! times.
The U.S. Supreme Court just strengthened police immunity from prosecution for excessive use of force cases in April. So don’t hold your breath that things are going to change, along with Jeff Sessions last-minute action to kill the police departments review ordered by the Obama Administration.
There are those who believe white people are inherently racist, yet journalists are unbiased. Two of the most outlandish and unreasonable ideas supported by nothing more than ignorance. Halfway through the third paragraph, the bias of the writer is on full display.
“Only 96 officers in America have been arrested for murder or manslaughter for an on-duty shooting since 2005…”
As if trying every LEO forced o shoot someone should result in charges. i don’t know the writers background, or that of a commenter or two, but my inclination is to believe they’ve never had to make the decision to shoot someone. I’m not claiming every instance of deadly force is justified, but neither do I think it is an unreasonable response in many cases.
Not everyone is cut out to be involved in Law Enforcement, armed or not, but rarely are there vocations in which deciding in a split second to take another’s life is a distinct possibility each and every day. It’s a burden not everyone is equipped to handle.
You have brought up a very fantastic points, thanks for the post.
I suggest the extraneous bullshit be surgically removed.
#1. Police do NOT have particularly dangerous jobs. They’re not in the top 10 most dangerous jobs. We don’t allow fishermen or lumberjacks or roofers or iron workers to kill anyone who makes them nervous just because they have dangerous jobs.
#2. Rules of engagement. When the US occupied Iraq the rules of engagement were do not fire unless fired upon. And thise were the rules applied to a hostile occupied populace. In the US, police routinely kill unarmed CITIZENS they perceive to be threats out of ignorance and/or cowardice. Since 9/11, police have killed more Americans than Al Qaeda + Taliban + ISIS.
Solution? If a cop kills a citizen who has not fired at them, prosecute them. If the cops don’t like it, they can get a real job.
Thank you my son was minding his own business sitting in his cousins driveway the cop came out of the bushes my sons hands went up and he said dont shoot the cop shot eight times seven hit him no police lights no commands no medical attention no hospital my son sat there and past away while this so called cop made jokes about how good my son was bleeding with his sheriff ridealong.this cop has a record you would not believe .so anyone who says cops shouldnt be charged with murder when using excessive force should watch. This dash cam video.A innocent man was killed for nothing.and this cop is still free so far.JUSTICE FOR JASON!
Why is there no mention of the prosecution’s response? Isn’t it the responsibility of the prosecution to make the jury aware of any gaps in the science?
Are there not prior military studies of men & women in combat situations to draw an utterance from regarding this? Just add additional components of unfair work practices, no voice or representation, constant media scrutiny & officers perceiving failed leadership at most agencies & especially from our high ranking representatives, such as those who stood with protesters yelling “Hands Up Don’t Shoot” in the Michael Brown incident. Which in the end cleared the officer 100%, however, his life was ruined. Also add in the failure in pay & benefits that are far below civilian jobs. All these stressors combined definitely weigh on the mind of every officer every day.
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